Nov 9, 2009


Socialism is coming like a freight train people and the first musings of it are veiled in the H.R. 3962 bill. It's already been passed in the house. Don't just lay down in the tracks and get run over! Contact your senators and tell them to vote NO on it!!!
Here are my big 3. (There's not time in the day to list everything that's aweful about this!)

#1) I have a serious problem with government officials passing a bill that takes away my right to choose. If this bill is passed you will HAVE to have health care. If you don't already have it you will have to sign up for the government "option". If you don't sign up for the government "option" you will be charged a tax. Obama claims it's not a tax, it's just everyone sharing their responsibility. HMMMMM, being forced to pay for everyone else.....does that sound a little like socialism!!!???....or worse!!!???

#2) This bill imposes such strict mandates on private insurance that the inevitable outcome will be private insurance throwing the towel because they won't be able to stay in business. The only thing that will be left is the government "option" so that is the healthcare YOU will have. What's the problem there? Have you EVER seen the government run ANYTHING that is quality, efficient and cost effective? Ummmm. No. We're in for some HORRIFIC health care people. This should be VERY SCARY to you!!!

#3) Obama said he wouldn't sign any bill that wasn't deficit neutral. To that I have this to say..."Liar, liar pants on fire!" Sophisticated argument I know....but it says it all. How long are we going to let government go spending money willy nilly that we DON'T have!!!???

Don't get me wrong. We need health care reform. But this is not reform. This is a poorly veiled bulldozing of the private health care system as we know it in order to replace it with a single payer, POORLY run, mandated government plan.

In Maine:
Contact Senator Snowe by email HERE
Contact Senator Collins by email HERE
To find your senator in another state go HERE

(PS: I have no problem with opposing view points. But if you post a comment as "anonymous" I will remove it. I have no time for people who won't stand behind what they believe!)


Cheryl said...

I absolutely agree! But isn't it a little late to be getting on the "Stop Obama Express"? He is barreling through his evil agenda to change America into a socialist or communist country, and it seems like nothing will stop him. :-( I wish a whole lot of idealistic voters would have realized a year ago how dangerous this man is for our country. (Pelosi and Reid, too!)
Impeach Obama! I know -- never gonna happen. Oh, well. I can dream, can't I?

Cheryl said...

P.S. Thanks for the links to email the senators. That was a lot easier than looking up their contact information. I just emailed them both. People should call them, too. Here are their numbers.

* Phone numbers for Senator Collins:

* Washington, D.C. Office (202) 224-2523
* Augusta Office (207) 622-8414
* Bangor Office (207) 945-0417
* Biddeford Office (207) 283-1101
* Caribou Office (207) 493-7873
* Lewiston Office (207) 784-6969
* Portland Office (207) 780-3575

Phone numbers for Senator Snowe:

Phone: (202) 224-5344 · Toll Free in Maine: (800) 432-1599 · Fax: (202) 224-1946

karladvalentine said...

I think you are absolutely 100% correct!!! May I quote you on my facebook page?

Sarah said...

sure karladvalentine

Isaac said...

Seriously Sarah? I thought you were smarter than that. You didn't research this at all did you?

#1) Not only will you not be "forced" into any public option, but you won't even be able to get it if you can afford health care otherwise or if you get insurance from work. So far from being forced into it, you are being forced *out* of it in most cases.

#2) The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has researched the impact of around 10 million Americans signing up for the public option and the result is negligible. The idea that it will force all private health insurers out of the market is not supported by a single non-partisan organization to my knowledge. Please correct this if I am wrong.

#3) The CBO has also agree that the public option will be budget neutral, and pay for itself through a combination of the payments from those enrolled and shuffling around some of the existing public health care providers, like Medicare. They are also going to tax (oh my god! taxes are socialist!!! just like the police, since that's paid for by taxes!!!!) *some* of the richest people in the country--at the rate they had before GW Bush lowered it for them. But it wouldn't be any more "socialist" than America in the 1990's!

Is that a slightly more cogent argument than "liar liar pants on fire"? If you're going to accuse someone of lying, don't you think you should offer some evidence? I know Joe Wilson thinks he can call Obama a liar with no backing, but is that who you now take your intellectual inspiration from?

The worst thing about this is not that you disagree with health care reform; it's that your arguments are so poorly conceived and structured. The country is not served by name calling and taunting. Do your part and educate yourself and others with facts and well structured thinking!

Isaac said...

Oh, and I forgot...Have I ever seen the government run anything well?

How about the water systems, road ways, utilities, police, fire departments, the army, the navy, the air force, the marines, the coast guard, the post office, the VA, public schools (well, some of them (: ), land grand university system, the National Park system, NASA, DARPA, the CIA, the FBI, the EPA, the FDA, OSHA and the Department of Homeland Security?

Sarah said...

Thank-you for the opposing views. I'll admit I didn't post well structured arguments and cite my sources. That was not my intention. My intention was to get my views off my chest quickly in about 2 minutes so I could still get things done around the house before my daughter woke from her nap. You're right, the country is not served by name calling and taunting. I try for a bit of comic releif here on my blog...which is what the "liar, liar" was intended for...I'm sure it got a quick chuckle from a few:)

In the same manner, maybe you could refrain from questioning my itelligence. I'd never question yours just because we disagree. I actually DO research these things. We just agree with different research.

#1) I'm not saying I myself will initially be forced into the gov. plan. But you cannot deny that lower income people with no healthcare will either have to take the gov. plan or pay a penalty. It's in the bill. I have a fundamental problem with that. If you don't we'll have to agree to disagree.

#2) Call my a cynic, but I really don't think there is a non-partisan anything. All you have to do is look at the mandates imposed on private health care in this bill, think it out a ways down the road and use common sense to deduce that the private insurers will go under.

#3) Actually, originally the CBO released a statement that this plan would increase the deficit by 239 billion and hours later, when challenged...changed their tune. Really it's all projections. All I'm saying is I'm skeptical.

This "shuffling" you speak of that will help pay for this is really not good. There WILL be cuts to medicaid. It's in the bill. Even those that are for this bill acknowledge that. I work with many folks that rely on medicaid and am concerned for them.

I did not say taxes were socialist. Taxes that ALL pay for a common service (such as police etc. etc.) are certainly not socialist. But taxing the rich to pay for a service that is to be primarily for low income, uninsured people...think about it! It's a dangerous road I don't want to see us go down.

I'll admit I shouldn't have used the generalization that the government doesn't run ANYTHING well. But notice I didn't say "well" in my post. I said, "quality, efficient, and cost effective". While I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, I stand behind my assertion. My husband works for the have NO idea.

I DO educate myself on both sides and I fully understand both views. I do not "disagree with health care reform". I am VERY much for health care reform. I disagree with THIS bill. I fear that you are not even stopping to consider the opposing view point.

I know we won't change each other's minds. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one man!

Isaac said...

I didn't mean to question your "itelligence [sic]" (sorry, had to--j/k though)...In fact, I began by saying "I thought you were smart-...".

All I wish to suggest is that research should bolster your rhetoric, not diminish it. And it doesn't seem like the available facts support your "freight train" of socialism rhetoric. But I live on research--please feed me some.

And while its true that it's all "projections", there is a difference, as I'm sure you're aware, between informed speculation and uninformed speculation.

By and large, the rich (upper 5%) pay the majority of the sum of taxes in this country and since the remaining 95% of us make less money but still benefit equally from government programs, I would say that this country already taxes the rich in order to give to the "less fortunate." It's all a question of degree. And once again, questions of such gradualism (which I think we can both agree that this will be gradual) cannot be described as freight trains.

As far as your "common sense" argument that public health care will wipe out private insurance, I would like to point to one example, though I must make a fool of myself to do so. The reason why I am a fool is that I cannot remember the country in which this happens. However, I was reading about the pros and cons of some European health care systems--what works and what doesn't and such--and comparing it to what the House passed this weekend. Among the most successful programs that most resembled the House bill was one in which the government provided universal coverage for preventive and basic care, such as, as you I am sure can appreciate, pre-natal and infant care. There is, however, a robust private insurance market in this country. In fact, 90% of their population buys private insurance along with the public option. This is because the public insurance is quite basic. If people want plans that cover more, then they can get it. This is almost exactly what the House bill will do, including the requirement that insurers cover all medical conditions. The only difference is that in this country, there is a pool of money for insurers that cover high risk clients which is paid for by taking insurers that only take low risk clients. We are not going to do that, it seems.

Isaac said...

The insurance mandate, while abrasive, is quite necessary. The biggest reason is, as you have also noted, is the pressure on insurers to cover everyone and the additional costs they will incur. Though as someone put it, you have to have car insurance so that you don't drive around uninsured, get into an accident and then call up the insurance company to get coverage. If so, everyone would do that, never pay premiums and only collect "reimbursements". Then insurers would surely collapse. But insurance companies have actually agreed to the health care bill and don't in fact see it as a great threat to their existence because of the universal mandate. It's quite true that if people were paying in while they were healthy, there would be less of a burden when they're unhealthy. In theory, this means that we will all pay a bit less and get a bit more when we need it, since, as you pointed it out, everyone will be doing their part.

I would suggest that you consider the university system in this country. There is a heavily subsidized public university system that co-exists with a well established private system. Some might say that private colleges could never exist with the regulations that government imposes on them for safe buildings, financial lending practices, etc *and* the existence of publicly subsidized universities. How can they compete when they will have to charge as much as four times more than the state colleges?! Surely the private colleges will perish! And yet, the private colleges succeed by offering something more than the public ones. In fact, some might even say that the competition helps create choice as well as drive down prices while enhancing the services that are offered. As you might say--think about it!!

As far as me not thinking about the opposing view point, I may fear that that is true since all I've heard from the opposing view point is that this is the road (or the freight train) to socialism. And the problem with that is, in itself, that's not even an opposing view point. I mean that, let's assume that it is true: is that a counter argument to the bill in the House? Not in itself. In fact, for a socialist, this would be an argument in favor of the bill. Rather one would have to refute the premises and practices of socialism itself. And this I have given some consideration to. But if you mean some other opposing view point, I would be more than happy to give it my full powers of consideration.

Sarah said...

Points considered Isaac, and I do love people who challenge me to further consider my views. It either changes them or strengthens them, neither of which is a bad thing. I do think the university system and the health care system are two different animals but I'm still pondering this one.

The frieght train is referring to the fact that the house passed somewhere around a 19,000 page bill after minimal ammendments and only ONE day of debate. I think that's ridiculous and in no way could they have hashed through it all!

The one point I'd like to try to drive home that I don't think you're hearing from me is this...Of course the rich pay more's based on percentage. That's not what I am saying. When new taxes that ONLY the rich pay...not the rich pay more because it's based on percentage...but that ONLY the rich pay start getting imposed in order to redistribute the wealth...THAT is where I see socialist ideals creeping in. Yes creeping...slow...gradual. But it is the slow and gradual that scares me more than anything. That's when the unaware people (referring to the people that don't inform themselves or get involved in any way) don't even notice. That's when things start slipping by unchallenged.

Cheryl said...

WOW! I just came back to see who all the comments were from. Sounds like Isaac has really drunk the Obama kool-aid! And, by the way, Isaac, Sarah's spelling is a product of the PUBLIC schools. I can't wait for socialized medicine, when health care is run as wonderfully as the DMV. Ever sit there for hours, watching the people who work there just shuffle around in slow motion without a care in the world that there are people waiting? THAT is what your precious Obama is going to do to our health care system! Hope you enjoy it when you need a kidney or something and the government says for whatever reason, sorry, take a number and wait ten years, or better yet, you are not eligible for that surgery.

Cheryl said...

By the way, who IS Isaac? His link leads nowhere. Be brave enough to show your face if you are going to come and slam someone else's views, Isaac.

Sarah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sarah said...

Hey spelling is just fine. I know how to spell. I just often type fast and don't spell check in this forum. Isaac realizes that...he was just cracking a joke that begged to be cracked...I chuckled at can everyone else :)

Cheryl said...

Sorry, you know me... I'm a stickler for correct spelling. But I often give yours a pass because I know that during the years you were learning to read, write, and spell, the public schools in all their wisdom were using the "whole language" method. Spelling wasn't important, they said, whole word recognition was all that mattered. Ha!

Rachel said...

Just to jump on the train late... I live in England and while the NHS isn't perfect I have only benefited from the system here.

I have worked as a temp for over a year (and just recently got my first 'real' job that I start on the 30th) and when you figure rent, bills and student loans, if I was in America there is no way I would have been able to afford insurance, even if my employer offered it on top of the other costs that take priority.

I can schedule an appointment with my GP nearly same day, my medications are subsidised so I only pay the equivalent of $11 per refill each time. And to top it off--I pay the same amount in taxes that I did when I was working in the US.

In addition, in England there are still private hospitals people can opt into if they want elective surgeries (like a facelift) or just private hospital care.

Last year, one of my friends got a pulmonary embolism after a plane ride, and received excellent, attentive care from the staff at one of the four hospitals in my city.

Just my two cents, but my experiences of the health care system in England have been positive, and I for one don't think socialism is such a terrible idea when implemented well.